Should Palin be Charged with Inciting to Riot?

I believe what Palin did was inciting to riot,

Of course you do. 

Do you also believe Jodie Foster was 'inciting a riot' while she yelled through a bullhorn, in a crowded public street, joining with the protester's who were demonstation loudly (rioting?) against Prop 8? 

Pat: Excellent point, I'll be shocked if you receive a response to that one.

Did she call the supporters of proposition 8 "terrorists"?

Maybe she should have called some of the protestors terrorists, with some of the threats and violent behavior associated with the protests. Sounds like the shoe fits to me

Did she call the supporters of proposition 8 "terrorists"?

Silly person.  Of course not.  Maybe you should become familiar with the story before asking a question like that.

Of course, you don't seem familiar with the fact that Palin didn't call Obama a 'terrorist' either.  Or that the seed is trying to turn this into something race based.

I don't agree.  The word terrorist isn't a racially exclusive term.  And honestly, I think these statements made by

Donald

I long the day African Americans take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming the white man for problems they inflict on themselves

Shon 561388,

I long the day White Americans take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming the black man for problems they inflict on themselves

and your own statement

Pat N,

I'd like to see an example of the white man blaming the black man for his problems.  Seems to be it is more frequently, the other way around.  I'm willing to be enlightened though.

are contributing to this seed being race based.

are contributing to this seed being race based.

TN, To be fair, the author of the seed attempted to make it race-based.  It is what it is.

Incidentally...I never knew people from Memphis were called Memphians.  I've been calling you guys 'Memphisites' all this time.  =)

Memphisites will work just as well!

Memphisite?  Sounds like some kind of fungus!  :-P

They are Memphians by every news article or t.v. report I've every seen, I live about 20 miles east of Memphis.  Just saying, I don't like the Memphisite thing.

Memphisite?  Sounds like some kind of fungus!  :-P

I'm small town Iowa.  We call people from Des Moines..."Des Moiniacs".

Sarah who?

DONALD TURNBULL................. I long for the day when you and like minded people at least attempt to see a bigger picture and the problem people did not intentionally infict on themselves or the role the past MIGHT HAVE PLAYED TO SOME SMALL SIGNIFICANCE in the partial demise of the some Black Americans.  However, I know now from your post alone, that my longing is INDEED in vain!  And for your opinion, I respect that, as I too long for the same thing for my fellow Black brothers and sisters.  I almost got angry, but today I read President Barack Obama's farewell letter to the citizens of Illinois and the one statement that made the biggest impact to me is that "we can disagree without being disagreeable"! 

I know from your post that you would be one of the ones that might (1) NOT call 911 for me if I were injured by the side of the road as that might possibly be my fault or (2) NOT hand me a cool drink if I were stranded on the street in the heat having an asthma attack as that too might be my fault or even (3) one of the ones I might need to fear THAT might have a proclivity to do me harm. 

Yes, that is what your one line has taught me about you.  But I wish you well in your jaded thinking and I continue toeagerly look forward to reading more of your very telling post.  Good day.

S. Elaine Jones (Black Woman who takes as much responsibility as her 60 year old shoulders can bear.  Unlike Jesus, I do not have to bear this cross alone).  Again, thank you kindly Massa Turnbull. 

If memory serves, Mr. Turnbull is black, too, S Elaine Jones....correct me if I'm wrong, Donald.

Palin gave the bigots and racists amongst us credence again to their rants, provoked their fears and gave them again a 'goal'.   The effect gave immediate rise to threats on an innocent family.  The rippling of the effect is going through society.  To deny this is great foolishness.  What - wait until someone is killed?  And then say well it just 'happened'.   Palin knew what the effects of her rallies were and she continued them.  She needs to be held personally responsible as well as the McCain campaign for the results of their blatant disregard of our citizens and country. 

KAIN... if history serves....... there were Black "massa's" too........ 

Excellent point Gina, I agree; palin is no one, she's had her 15 minutes of fame.  That's it.  I'd say about 13 minutes too long.

KAIN... if history serves....... there were Black "massa's" too........

And is that what you term any black person who happens to think black people should take responsibility for their own futures?

E.D.   - don't attempt to mix my words.  I made a simple statement in response to yours.  So let me make it plainer.  SO WHAT IF YOUR BUDDY Donald is Black?  Is that supposed to impress me?  That makes what he said acceptable "to me"?   I think not.  I too think Blacks should take responsibility but it all does not fall on their shoulders entirely and that is the mistake "others" have IN MY OPINION in their thinking.  I don't expect anything much from the "others" anyway, since the "other" does not think I deserve anything.  So I get it for myself.  Basically!  But I think Blacks should have a different, if not better understanding.  And if history serves, there were Black massas and still are.  And a Black massa can be a worse task-master, actually.  They have something to prove, or so they think. 

Would you prefer the term "race traitor"?

No boons......  I prefer exactly the terminology I chose to use.  I don't need you to "attempt" to decifer what I said.  I said what I meant. Historically "Black Massa".  Your type typically uses the "traitor" word.  But thank you anyway.

...but then again, you'd like that, yes?  well, if the shoe fits.  Enslaving your own is like eating your own.  It the brutal truth be told.

You are right that what she is still doing is all on her and she and people who do the same sorta stuff are very dangerous. I would never try to help cover Sarah. I just look at her as an unintelligent woman who is trying to stay in the spotlight and my hope is most people see her for what she is and soon she will be out of the picture all together.

I hope too she goes out of the picture soon, but it is that people may be killed because of her foolishness even if she heads out.   She had a responsibility to our country and she traded it to gain herself a win.  There is no excuse for that.   Her unwillingness to admit mistakes directly continues her insult to our citizens and the dangers incited. 

Exactly Mrs. Brady.  Even Senator McCain stopped the foolishness when it went too far (The Arab nut lady) and so did PE Obama (don't boo, just vote).  But noooooooo, Missy Palin dug and dug and dug....................  What's the old saying, "When you dig one hole, be sure to dig two"!  Yep, she indeed said what was maybe written; what?; she can't think for herself.  A parrot, perhaps!?

And she is willing to help the PE?  I doubt if he wants her even near his new puppy.  oh for sure, not the puppy!  I forgot for a moment who I was talking about.  Old helo-riding moose hunter.

nooooo not the puppy ...btw I hear parrot are really smart so maybe a crow or something "lol"

For anyone who might be upset about the crow thing it was a bad joke and maybe we just need a little laugh ... but really Palin has been some what punished by her Negative campaigning by Our Votes. If she was to run again Lets just vote again .My hope and What I think will happen is that after a little time we just wont hear from her or about her again.

Exactly and just how often does she have to cross the line to be held accountable I wonder?

When freedom of speech evokes hatred, that crosses the line............

Wrong.  When freedom of speech leads directly to violence, that crosses the line.  Freedom of speech often leads to "hatred."  In fact, the term hatred can be interpreted in different ways depending on perspective, historical context, and a number of other variables, whereas violence is fairly straightforward (in most cases).

If "inciting hatred" were the qualifier, then most of the liberals in this country ought to have been locked up years ago for their hatred of Bush.  Ludicrous, isn't it?

When freedom of speech evokes hatred, that crosses the line............

Well, we'd have to throw a lot of opinionated people in jail, then, Lynda.

Palin's actions were in poor taste, but she never once asked her supporters to hang Obama because he is black.  Her supporters were filled with hate.  Her supporters made noise.  Her supporters were hateful.

The KKK is, in my opinion, nothing but hate.  However, the KKK's right to free speech is protected under the first Amendment, as is my right to speak out against them.  It is not for us to decide which kind of speech is acceptable and which is criminal.

First of all EDKain; I try my very best not to dribble (being Human, I might at times) however when that happens, I cease to be the least little bit effective.  However many may still see ineffectiveness.  However, in your case, I think not.  So I thank you, I think?  :) tee hee

I believe in free speech only to the point where it does NO harm.  Much like that MD oath or something.  FIRST DO NO HARM! And it that means curtailing my voice, so be it.  I more believe in "power of the tongue".  A very dangerous little organ! Free Speech just like Affirmative Action and other little great gifts from this nation (and yes, I probably have used Aff Act before...) was not meant to be arbitrarily used for bad.  Unfortunately; we take many things much to far to suit our own ideologies. 

We should all go back to the childhood notion that if you can't say something nice about someone don't say anything at all?

 believe in free speech only to the point where it does NO harm

Do NO harm? Going by that definition, then nobody could say anything at all for fear of being sued or arrested.

All someone would have to do is to disagree in the slightest and another person could claim that "their feelings were hurt" or some such nonsense.

There is no such thing as NO HARM, it simply does not exist.

Furthermore, exposure to even the negative helps the reasonable majority to build and maintain a defense against the real hate-mongers. the roachs NEED to be drug into the light that they hate. and they thrive on being forced underground.

Unfortunately lemmywinks, polite speech, or any other kind of manners seems to have dropped by the wayside years ago.

And in politics, it dropped by the wayside several millenia ago.

This a serious question. What if speech from the left incites riots?  

Well, ed, then President Nixon calls out the National Guard and shoots a bunch of students dead.

Well, ed, then President Nixon calls out the National Guard and shoots a bunch of students dead.

didn't nixon do that once already? i hope we don't have to exhume him and repeat all the right wing mistakes all over again. wasn't the last 8 years enough?

what is a crime is that there are not more people in the streets railing against the idiocy of the neo-con socialist corporate fascist agenda....

too many 21st century self-absorbed nihilist i guess... bring back the draft!

The anti-humanists have taken off their sheets and  put on suits like David Duke

Oh give me a break, Aunk.  This sort of ignorant grouping of people is absurd.  I'm assuming anyone who disagrees with the nonsense on this thread/seed is now an "anti-humanist" and therefor, in your mind, "like David Duke"?  David Duke is, indeed, ex KKK, and an anti-Semitic, racist POS.

So now anyone who thinks Palin was simply exercising her free speech and should not be prosecuted thanks to our glorious Constitution is suddenly "like David Duke?"

What a horrible, ignorant thing to say.

... suddenly like David Duke!  PERHAPS!  If the shoe fits..........

A message for our youth: Pay close attention in National Discussions on "race" like this one. The anti-humanists have taken off their sheetsand  put on suits like David Duke but if you turn on your racedar on, you will pick up the symptoms as word blips on your screen.

I had a feeling that you felt the only people that are "anti-humanists " are whites. Seems to me that you may also be part of the race conscious problem. 

Let me guess you don't think Rev. Wright was preaching hate against whites....

S. Elaine:

Sorry, racism is dead.  Bigotry may be alive, but insitutional racism is dead.

Haven't you heard, a black man was elected president of this Country and millions and millions of whites voted for him.

But bigotry still exists, against jews, christians, muslims, bricklayers, woodsmen, hunters, fur wearers, and many, many other sorts of folks.

But there shouldn't be laws against bigotry, now should there?

wmolaw....extremely well said  =)

It's much worse than simply poor taste.  It's unethical, divisive, and dangerous.

We've come to expect nothing less of this author's "articles".

The more deranged the reaction, the more intense the perceived threat. She frightens the hell out of whiny-assed. mealy-mouthed liberals and there is little that is more entertaining than that!

And with nothing more than Reagan-style conservative rhetoric, clearly articulated. Amazing.

The more deranged the reaction, the more intense the perceived threat. She frightens the hell out of whiny-assed. mealy-mouthed liberals and there is little that is more entertaining than that!

Holy cow...is it good to see you posting again.  Missed you over the last couple of days.  The way you call a spade a spade is refreshing.

It's amazing how the Liberals still panic about a Washington outsider from AK with 5 kids and a killer 'moose chili' recipe.  Apparently they don't realize Sarah is no longer a threat?  Have they not figured out they won?  Oh well.  It IS entertaining to watch.  Here's something that will really get them foaming at the mouth.....

Sarah Palin '12!

I'm not sure I understand your tone.  I am a liberal, got no problem with it, and I am not in a panic.  My mouth is not foaming because Sarah may run in 2012.  Quite the contrary, Sarah has every right as a US citizen to run for President in 2012, as do you.  The question was should she be charged with incting to riot.  My answer is no.  I haven't seen any riots.  I'm not sure how whiny assed and mealy mouthed that makes me sound.

I'm not sure how whiny assed and mealy mouthed that makes me sound.

Not all liberals, TN101.  But you have to admit, "articles" like this point to an element amongst the liberal crowd that are less rational than yourself...

I'm not sure I understand your tone.  I am a liberal, got no problem with it, and I am not in a panic.  My mouth is not foaming because Sarah may run in 2012.  Quite the contrary, Sarah has every right as a US citizen to run for President in 2012, as do you.  The question was should she be charged with incting to riot.  My answer is no.  I haven't seen any riots.  I'm not sure how whiny assed and mealy mouthed that makes me sound.

Mea Culpa, TN.  I guess I should have said 'some' Liberals.  Evidence would be some of your counterparts on this thread that are sounding rather hysterical.

Re 8.4

Sounds to me like I wasn't talking about TN010 at all. Not sure why he/she felt obliged to respond...

Pat N

I hope I haven't, and I am sorry if, I offended you.  It's easy to get into a typing, opinionated frenzy on a message board.  It does get rather hysterical on message boards doesn't it?

I guess I responded because I identify myself as a liberal.

Sorry to hijack your post.

Pat N

I hope I haven't, and I am sorry if, I offended you.  It's easy to get into a typing, opinionated frenzy on a message board.  It does get rather hysterical on message boards doesn't it?

TN, Water under the bridge.  No biggie.  I appreciate your rational opinions, though.  I look forward to trading opinions back and forth with you on future topics!

TN101,

It's equally easy for some rally attenders to get carried away. Wrong, but easy.

Is it Aunk's fault if you had an emotional response?  He loves to throw this inflammatory crap out and stir the pot and I'd love to see these worthless "articles" voted down.  Palin did no such thing as incite any riot at any rally or elsewhere.  In fact, I know I read at one point the secret service could not verify accusations of one such alleged emotional shout from the crowd. 

If someone on a podium shouts, "Are you ready to send [me] to Washington to take care of business as usual?" (or words to that effect), it is not the speaker's fault if a lone person yells, "kill him".  It's just too ridiculous.

It would be much more credible to be angry at the ACLU and your representatives and courts for allowing true threats to continue to exist because of their so-called "first amendment" rights.

And, may God guard and keep Barack Obama and the brave men and women of the Secret Service who protect him.

Denn! How's it going?  :-)

I must disagree with you, though, regarding Palin "inciting a riot."  I find it incredibly silly to think that Sarah Palin could be held responsible for rowdy crowds.  Never in her speeches were found the words "let's kill him" or things like that.  Never in her speeches was violence of any sort advocated.  She did tell her supporters to VOTE for her party's ticket, a non-violent way of expressing one's wishes.

There were no riots, that I recall, in which property was damaged or destroyed at the behest of Sarah Palin.

We must remember that anger, in and of itself, is not a crime.  If Sarah Palin had asked her supporters to take a swing at Obama supporters that would be a different story entirely.

If America gets to the point (again) where speaking or thinking a certain way becomes criminal I'm going to pack up and move to the deepest part of the forest I can find and live in isolation.

Hi there! Sorry, but there are reams of case law on the books defining 'incite' and plenty of convictions as past precedents. Could a case could quite possibly be made, as an example, say, that a scenario similar to this had played out during one of her rallies?:

In the course of her 'speech' she states, by name, her opponent, and at that moment, someone shouts out "Kill him!" and that person is caught on tape, video and audio. The same happens moments later. Same inflammatory statement, by name, same result, "Kill him!" recorded. Another shouts the same thing. And another. See where this is going? Where it now is, at this point?

Would you believe a crime may have already been committed here?

possible incite to riot, possible threats toward an elected official of the government, for starters. Motive, ability, and intent to harm are balls of wax down the road from this scenario, but it's a he** of a starting point.  Plenty of case law out there in support of the  guilt of the action of "words" being indistinguishable from the guilt of the actual "physical act". And there's tons of precedents that a statement like "Kill him" can be construed as a threat on ones life.

Imho, it's my thought that one possible reason we didn't see a pair of "uniforms" in any guise saunter over to the individual in question at her rally (if that's what our subject really is!) and hook him on the spot was due to a matter of "expediency". Can you imagine an already whipped up crowd reacting to that? Sheer bedlam would have erupted.

There's an old axiom in crowd control circles, something like "a person is smart. People are unpredictable and dangerous."

I have to agree Denn. The ONLY difference between a 'church' and a 'cult' is acceptance by mass society.  Perception will twist reality to meet it, not the other way around.

True, history is filled with such examples.

The ONLY difference between a 'church' and a 'cult' is acceptance by mass society. 

 I remember when Jeremiah Wright was inciting a crowd, Obama's Cult or was it a church?  Maybe I'm confused.

BB, now you have to go throw partisanship into it.  I was just pointing out that reality is twisted to meet perception. Actually, you proved my point quite well. You twisted the reality of this conversation to meet your perception of what it was intended for. Not too often I get a WILLING guinea pig to prove my point for me. *applauds*

Now, in reference to your comment, which I can almost envision you giggling and running away from your computer clapping your hands together like a 5 year old when she figured something out....but then again, that's MY perception, but here goes.

Out of 20 years of sermons, I'm sure MOST if not all recorded and transcribed , TWO memorable soundbites that were repeated ad nauseum.  Were they harsh? Yes. Improper? Probably Were they false? That's up for you to decide. But are TWO comments made in very poor taste enough to mariginalize every thing that he has said over the past twenty years? Again, that's up for you to decide. 

How many 'memorable soundbites' did Palin have over the last two weeks of her campaign?

Yes, we know Obama's 57 states gaffe, which was funy. His campaign thinking he could bowl, when he can't (makes sense why there's talk about getting the bowling lane out of the white house (rumor, no source to back it up, so take it with a grain of salt.)...and his gaffe on  'guns and religion' which he actually admitted was a huge mistake.  A politician admitting a mistake? I know, I too was shocked.

And we know that Biden apparently likes the flavor of his socks because he was prone for sticking his foot in his mouth.

And McCain's were pretty...well..they were interesting.  More of tactical errors though. Or was it strategical? I'm confused.

But Palin's gaffes outdid them all.  From her response to the investigation into her ethics violation, to the way she handled the clothing issue, to her gaffe in front of a rally mistakenly thinking that everyone had $20,000 in an investment account they could lose...to the prank cell phone call by the Canadians, to the press conference that she called for when she got back to Alaska, to the (what's the most recent?) Oh yeah, the RGA conference, she definitely leads in the gaffes department.

And before you condemn me for saying this, and telling me how these aren't relevant, unwarrented attacks, etc. I'll offer you a wager.

If the next public office she runs for (senator, or the next Republican Primary in 2012) her Republican opponents in those primaries DON'T use these 'unwarrented attacks' against her to damage her credibility, I'll give you $100.   Easy money. But definitely NOT a safe bet.But it's up for you to decide.

Hmmm.  Something fishy here.  I read your link about Palin being investigated.  Trouble is, no author listed, no sources, named or unnamed listed, just statements about Palin being investigated by the Secret Service.  Then it dawned on me.  The article title sounded very much like an article I had just read:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/ap_on_el_pr/obama_threats

And what do you know!  Much of this article was cut and pasted into the article referenced here.  BUT, nothing in the AP article even hints to a Palin investigation.  In fact, Palins name is not even mentioned.  SO, in true Newsvine fashion, AUNK,

PROVE IT.  With a bonified article, correctly authored.

Nice catch, AWM....I too, will be waiting for the proof with breathless anticipation.  (tick, tick, tick...)

AWM,

actually, if what you're saying is that anuk paraphrased a plagiarized article, which paraphrasing is still on the technical side of plagiarizing if credit to the actual source isn't given... generally it's not just frowned upon, it can cause a lot of lost credibility on the vine if exposed and proven...

(waiting, as well)

Agents said there were two threatening cases involving racial overtones:

--In Denver, a group of men with guns and bulletproof vests made racist threats against Obama and sparked fears of an assassination plot during the Democratic National Convention in August.

DNC Convention...August 25-28

Palin wasn't publicly announced as McCain's pick until August 29!

Where's Palin's the connection to the phoney junkie "assassination" story that occured before she became VP nominee?

There is none.

--Just before the election, two skinheads in Tennessee were charged with plotting to behead blacks across the country and assassinate Obama while wearing white top hats and tuxedos.

2 skinhead wannabees, one is 20 the other 18, had no realistic plan to assassinate anyone, they were talking @!$%# on MYSPACE and the mighty ATF came down on them like they were a REAL threat.

Guess the ATF ran out of churches to burn down.

Aunk:

You said:  "The good news is that it is no longer just me noting that Palin is a Cultural Terrorist, the Secret Service blames Sarah Palin for the rise in death threats against Obama"

And you referenced this:  http://statesmanjournal.com/article/20081115/UPDATE/81115007

That article in the statesman journal was plagiarized from this article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/ap_on_el_pr/obama_threats

Nothing in the Yahoo/AP article even references Palin.  But your source article in the stateman journal makes unjustifiable claims that she is being investigated.  Now you make the same claims, based on a plagiarized, unjustified source.  Credibility = 0.00

Good point. I just hope she goes away as soon as possible.

What would you charge her with that wouldn't infringe on free speech?

And a little cut 'n paste, too, perhaps, AWM?

Plagiarism is NOT cool.  It really pisses me off.

Anuk,

I note that you did not say death threats against your President Elect "pisses me off".

I'm sure it does. No one wants to see a man shot for no real good reason. However, being mad about it won't change it. You were a soldier, you know as well as I that some people get it in their head to do some stupid things. As a result they do it. When you were serving, did being mad at someone for an alleged action or proposed action make them not do it? No.

I can tell my son to not lie, becuase it makes me mad, but I would be the fool if I expected him to not lie based on how it made me feel. When I tell my son to not lie, I never use my own feelings as an excuse. I tell him to not lie becuase it is wrong and it can hurt people or himself. what you've said is that Mystic Chik is 'bad' or anti-humanistic becuase she neglected to say "Death threats against your President Elect pisses me off."

Racism pisses me off, and I guess anytime I further address you I should open with an entire list of personal grievances so that you never question my motive or where I'm coming from, but then... who's got time to worry about what make ME mad - we need to worry about making sure everyone around us never ever frowns in our general direction.

Look I understand you'd like to press on with you weak point here, and your point may be well and good, but your methods are questionable. Cut N Paste articles? epic fail. You can't very well expect a crowd to listen to you if you're not coming up with an original idea that is not fashionably seeded. To top that, you provide no proof, only opinion which, given your interests, seems to be based less on humanism and more on Afrocentrism. If you were truly being a humanist and fought for equal humanist causes, you'd have had an article about how inhumane it was for people to poke fun at Trigg Palin, Condemn Sarah for even having a baby with development issues and accuse Bristol of being a whore (and Triggs real mom), but no... that went to the wind. Spare me the "humanism" crap until you stop picking sides and being selectively humanistic.

See, I can play that immature 'table turn" game too. I guess because you didn't say you were unhappy at the lack of fair treatment McCain and Palin got, you were in fact happy - you damn anti-humanist... (sigh)...

I note that you did not say death threats against your President Elect "pisses me off".

Aunk, I will state right now;

I may not have voted for Obama, but he is now MY President (Elect), and death threats (against either the current, or the President elect) REALLY PISS ME OFF!!!

Hetep and Respect danwill, now that is a serious and respectable response. Death threats against any President should be rejected. I agree.

Cool.  Lets hear some of your passion against the multiple death threats that Bush has received.

I doubt if there were any noises like that when a book and a movie were released that openly fantasized about the assasination of GWB. No concernes from these whiners about incitement then, I'll wager. Then it was all about the freedom of speech.

I note that you did not say death threats against your President Elect "pisses me off". 

Aunk-

Check out comment #1 on this seed.

Now you've really pissed me off.

Of course nobody wants death threats against their President or President-elect.  But does any serious thinking person actually believe that anyone who had the hate inside to actually carry that out would have needed any prodding from Palin?  No!  Skinheads and white supremacists were already hateful, ignorant people.  And they're going to do some awful things in the next few years regardless of any of the Palin rallies.  Palin went on the negative.  It happens every election.  She would have said the exact same things had Obama been white and had an association with Bill Ayers, Toni Rezko, or any of the other shady characters Obama happened to know.

A word of advice, Aunk: the next time you think about implying that someone condones death threats against a presidential candidate you might want to check into whether or not that is really true first.

Please open your mouth wider so that I can shove BOTH your feet inside.

I am waiting for your apology.

A word of advice, Aunk: the next time you think about implying that someone condones death threats against a presidential candidate you might want to check into whether or not that is really true first.

Please open your mouth wider so that I can shove BOTH your feet inside.

I am waiting for your apology.

Aunk...I agree with Mystic.  Anyone who has read even a few of her posts, knows that she is fair minded and doesn't condone extremism on either side of the fence. If you are truly the 'Cultural Health" dude...you would recognize an apology as culturally healthy.

You've attempted to 'incite a riot' on this board, IMO.  Since you are a fine, upstanding representative of stopping riotous behavior, how do you suppose we should deal with this?  Or are you just one of the many shallow Palin haters that will do and say anything to try and provoke a frenzy over the woman?

Finally, E.D. you said it the way I would have. She may have been negative but if you read her interview transcript after the election you will hear it from her that she had no idea what was being said at the rallies by the supporters. With thousands of people crowded into small areas can you even think for a moment she would hear something.

Also for those that can't seem to get past it, it was found the ONE person that supposedly said "kill him" was found to have actually been a lone reporter that said he heard it but the Secret Service could not find a single person who witnessed it.

There was also a god tidbit in the article (please don't think I agree with the statement fully, just interesting perspective)...

"Liberals won’t care however, because the myth of a hateful Palin rally is easier to accept than the idea that people simply don’t agree with them on many important issues. Liberalism is secularized dark ages Christianity where to challenge with the orthodoxy makes you, in the Liberals mind, not just wrong but deliberately rejecting the Truth and thus evil. Tell a liberal raising taxes on large companies means they’ll raise prices on products and lay off workers and you’ll be accused of shilling for them and working against “the people” even if you’re just some guy running a few websites for a living. Tell that same liberal you support the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms and you’re called a redneck or worse, despite often being much better educated. Support a candidate they don’t and they’ll try to destroy your business."

http://www.red-alerts.com/un-american-activities/secret-service-liberals-lied-about-kill-him-comment-at-palin-rally/

As for the initial question .... are you serious ? She should not be held accountable for someone else's actions. She spoke the truth in a negative manner and got called on it. It's called politics. The only thing people can control is their own reaction.

Thank You! Law school trained I'll be the first to admit I'm not, but none the less, thank you Zoilus! (see, some of those poly sci classes I took were ringing bells after all this time!)

The "Law" is still a field where anyone can study it, take the bar exam, and if the pass it, can be a Lawyer. It's just one of the things that interest me. Some of the other scholars and philosophers that had influenced the founders are; Plato. Epictetus, Moliere, Plato, Robespierre, Algernon Sidney, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, to name a few. We know this because these works were all found in more then one of the Founders personnel Libraries., and quoted by them as is recorded in the minutes of the Constitutional Congress, and "Committee of Stile and Arrangement". a great study.

You gotta love America. We are a Nation of Laws.

So very true. Same here, always read a bit further than the "headline news" so to speak. It may not sound it at times, but I did enjoy my poly sci, except one particular year with one particular class's prof....that very first low, droning, moaning note you'd hear emanating from the older hand crank air raid sirens.......that was he, that one unending, monotonous, unwavering note, and that was when he became exuberant!

I doubt if there were any noises like that when a book and a movie were released that openly fantasized about the assasination of GWB. No concerns from these whiners about incitement then, I'll wager. Then it was all about the freedom of speech.

So she is responsible for inciting violence. 

All hail Dan Hallo, Prosecutor, Judge and Jury!

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just to ask questions, then go back to being stupid just in time to not understand the answer?

What does Zoilus mean? How did you get the name?

"Zoilus (Greek: Ζωίλος, c. 400 BC-320 BC) was a Greek grammarian, Cynic philosopher, and literary critic from Amphipolis in Macedon.

Zoilus is especially notable for his role in the beginnings of Homeric scholarship. His monograph Homeric questions seems to have analysed continuity errors in Homer, but also criticised the impropriety of Homer's depiction of gods indulging in allegedly inappropriate behaviour. This monograph is widely regarded as the beginning of classical scholarship. Zoilus also wrote responses to works by Isocrates and Plato, who had attacked the style of Lysias of which he approved. 

However, the Homeric questions led to his becoming a byword for harsh and malignant criticism: in antiquity he gained the name Homeromastix, "scourge of Homer"; and in the modern period, Cervantes calls Zoilus a "slanderer"in the preface to Don Quixote, and there is a (now disused) proverb, "Every poet has his Zoilus." Since his writings do not survive, it is impossible to know whether this caricature is justified."

Beyond that, it was a Nickname given to me in High School by a teacher who said I was an "Old Soul" in 1969, and it stuck. I have friends who don't know me by any other name.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but we have a slightly more modern (and American) take on the whole "hate speech" issue.

In Brandenburg v. Ohio, the Supreme Court held that the government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless it was inciting "iminent lawless action". Now if the attendees at a Palin rally had rushed out, hopped a flight to wherever Obama was, and attempted to literally "kill him", as they had yelled, she could be held responsible. If they had proceeded to riot, loot, etc., she could be held responsible. However, since no one actually did that, there is nothing to charge her with.

If she could in fact be charged simply because someone yelled "kill him" at a rally, what are we to do with sports figures? How many times has a fan yelled something violent toward opposing teams' players? Did they mean it literally? How do we know what their intent was? Can we sue Brett Favre or Peyton Manning for inciting hate? Where does it end?

Fed:

Oh, please.  don't try to inject rationality and sense into this article.  It is just a collection of haters, exercising their hatred against a convenient target.  One who never even had any power, whatsoever, in this Country!

Sorry, it's kinda like Tourette's Syndrome...I just can't help myself! :-p

Oh, please.  don't try to inject rationality and sense into this article.

Who are the Far-Right? 

White Supremacist, Ku Klux Klan, Silver Shirts, the American Nazi Party, the Posse Comitatus, The Skinheads, the Aryan Nations, or the National Alliance and other segregationist Hate groups.

"Ignorance and bigotry, like other insanities, are incapable of self-government." --Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1817.

Don't presume to lecture to those who have no tolerances at all for hate groups that have no tolerance for anyone not like they are ether in background, appearance or mentality,, and twist it by calling them intolerant. America is wise this sophistry and are sick of it. No sane person will compromise  one iota with insanity. Their time is over. 

Society [has] a right to erase from the roll of its members any one who rendered his own existence inconsistent with theirs; to withdraw from him/her the protection of their laws, and to remove him from among them by exile, or even by death if necessary." - Thomas Jefferson to L. H. Girardin, 1815

The base reference for his article is a plagiarised blog entry.  The Secret Service is not investigating Palin, because Palin did not say, "Go kill Obama".  Aunk, and his merry band of lemmings here have no basis for her to be investigated or otherwise.So until a credible source says that some investigation does in fact include Palin, this is nothing more than hyperbole.

and IF angrywhiteman is correct about the plagerizing and "cut and pasting" of a bona-fide article, then the author of the article is as guilty of dirty tricks and lying as anyone in the right-wing smear machine.

Sarcasm to the nth degree lost on that one. Utterly lost.

Palin is a loon. Period.

Not hyperbole.

Not a "lemming run".

My "base reference".  A loon.

Period.

Statements of opinion are not fact and saying them as if they were only makes the speaker appear loony.

Then that means all three of us are loons! I'm in good company!

I am not a loon, but I am a dork.  Can I still join the party?

Palin is a loon. Period.

This is what I was referring to; of course we all make statements that are opinion without a qualifier e.g., in my opinion and it is understood to be an opinion. The above, however, does not fall into that category.

Mystic you're no dork but you can show up at any party any where as far as I'm concerned. And if this is a party we are sad, sad people.

I found Palin to be quite aggressive. While it's good to be a go-getter, I didn't really like it coming from her.  I realize that she was just following the orders of the people behind the scenes, but still...

I agree, this isn't really a party.  It's not a party until someone's dancing around with a lampshade on their head.

Hello again Mystic! (and that's not an "in my opinion"!)

I am most certainly of "the opinion" that I need no grandiose "in my opinion" to state categorically my personal acceptance of, rejection of, qualification for, interpretation of,  for or against anyone on this rock for my belief that any single person is or group of people are a loon or loons or any other designation I so care to apply to said person or persons. And most certainly not as a qualifier to be accepted or rejected by anyone, period. Should anyone demonstrate  such verbose melodrama as such as being a  necessary qualifier to justify their own opinion, belief, stand, tenet, position, or any other designation of their own definition of their own opinion, belief, stand, tenet, orposition, then such aforementioned designation may quite possibly most certainly apply to themselves as well. (whew! got that all out, and in only one take too!)

(in my opinion!)

(happy now?)

(good, let's party now!)

Jeeze, I'm glad we all got that cleared up!

me too!

Terrified is more the word.  'Cause I'm afraid now.

If she does come out as a power in 2012 it will set this country back 100 years in terms of business, labor, and race relations.  It will either define this country forever biases or it will be end of the Republican party.  I do not think that the Republican party want to become distinct.  So I do not think the very far right and Palin with become a power again, I sure hope not. 

So I do not think the very far right and Palin with become a power again, I sure hope not. 

Far Right?  Sally dear....you DO know that Palin took on her own party in Alaska, right?  You also know that McCain supported stem cell research as well as amnisty, right?

There is no way Mc Cain could have been called 'far right'...and me thinks you're just afraid of Palin.

S. Elaine Jones

White power skinheads are  racist and often also

They are bad among themselves, not from any leadership of Sarah Palin.  So you cannot blame her with anything they did or said.

Surely you jest, but I will leave well enough alone.  Sarah's hands are squeaky clean.  I just hope she sleeps well at night. In fact, I am sure she does.  I certainly don't from wearing my knees in prayer for the safety of the new First Family.  Again, we can agree to disagree.  Fans of Governor Palin will never see differently.  Fine.

S. Elaine Jones

Actually her hands are clean, she didn't stir up any racial hatred for Obama.  That is what the skinheads are about and more. 

I will suggest while you are praying for the Obama's, why don't you say a little prayer for Sarah Palin and her family and share the love.

ok, we can all use a little prayer.

S. Elaine - Perhaps if you need to blame someone for reminding the idiotic skinheads that Obama is indeed black, you might point the finger at Obama. He was the one who kept reminding everyone, not Palin.

Not that they really needed to be told, and not that they needed any encouragement to go after a black political figure. That's the basis of their illogical, disturbing hate-filled mentality.

Your thoughts are well put.  It is true that the hate was already there.  But Palin in a sense validated their hate and gave their hate a mission again.  She was aware that this was happening, but she was putting winning before the lives of innocent people.  There is a line of moral decency.  Palin crossed it. 

What, in your opinion did Palin say that was so hateful? Other than accusing Obama of "palling around with terrorists"?

And what did Obama do at his rallies to stop the "anti-Palin" hate? What about those obscene t-shirts? If Palin is ever the victim of a sex crime, can we sue Obama for allowing people to wear "Palin is a C---" shirts at his rallies? What about the Palin effigy in West Hollywood? Did I hear Obama tell those folks to take it down?

Yes, there is a line of moral decency, and MANY crossed it this election season.

has that dead horse reached the finish line YET?

No Archon. They are not the only preachers of hate by any means.

However, some of the messages the individuals you mentioned send are hateful. (in Ayers case, how much more hateful can you get than a bomb?)

But "kill him" is not exactly something you yell out friendship or respect either.

You know full well, or should know, that if any of the people you mentioned caused their audience to scream out "kill him...", "Off with his head..." or the word "kill" in any context the Church would be raided the minster/speakers arrested and possibly everyone in the crowd might be placed in jail.

A) You know full well the "kill him" story has been debunked by the Secret Service, but you keep putting it out there for the ignorant masses.

*"We take every threat very seriously. Every time we receive or are reported information like that, we follow up," said Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan.

However, he cautioned that at the McCain rally, "no Secret Service agent overheard any threatening statement and no threatening statements were reported by law enforcement or the general public."

*So far, the Secret Service has not found anyone who heard "kill him" Tuesday except for the Times-Tribune reporter.

*Listening to tapes of that rally, the Secret Service heard "tell him" or "tell them," but agents never heard "kill him," Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren told The Associated Press on Wednesday

B ) You know full well Obama's associates Wright, Farakkhan, and The Black Panthers are Black Power Separatists and their "Black Liberation Theology" is all about taking down the "White" majority.

They are not the only preachers of hate by any means.

Yeah they are.

James Cone-Jeremiah Wrights' spiritual leader.

"What we need is the destruction of whiteness, which is the source of human misery in the world." [REV. JAMES CONE- Quoted in David Horowitz, Hating Whitey, Spence Publishing, 1999, p. 44.]

Wright-"White America..the US of KKK-A"

Farrakhan-" Many of the Jews who owned the homes, the apartments in the black community, we considered them bloodsuckers"

????????????????

she is as guilty as someone screaming fire in a theatre... when there isn't one.

now she wants to play nice with the winner...

want some moose-pie to chase down that crow?

pinheads for palin UNITE! free the wench for 2012... (if she'll only shut up til then....)

She gave their hate and racism new fuel and worse a 'goal'.  And as far as incidents one failed or one tried or one succeeded is one too many and it only takes one to kill an innocent citizen.  You want to tell the loved ones of that person, that it takes more than one?  Palin needs to be held accountable.  Her refusal to admit mistakes, apologize and undo her damage is just like her continually lighting matches trying to light the fuse of a bomb.  One that works, and deadly violence is the result.  She sleeps at night because the only thing she actually cares about is her spotlight.  Most of the rest of us care instead about our country. 

Do you think these American youth were Obama youth or Republican youth?

neither, just stupid, wackjob, losers. although they may have CLAIMED to be republican.

Well, then, we must also charge Obama with inciting violence.  His "Get in their Face" rally resulted in two Obama supporters being arrested for assault when they sprayed mace in the faces of McCain campaign workers.

Or the McCain campaign manager whose house was shot up becasue he had McCain signs in his yard.

Justice for one, justice for all.

I don't support the disrespect from either side.  These types of reactions from supporters (supporters being an oxymoron) on both sides of the campaign are counterproductive, as we have seen.

she is as guilty as someone screaming fire in a theatre... when there isn't one.

Obama's pal Bill Ayers IS a terrorist. That's smoke.

She gave their hate and racism new fuel and worse a 'goal'. 

The only PEOPLE ever mentioning RACE ARE OBAMA'S SUPPORTERS.

 Black person was shot in Europe

In the U.K. with a BB-gun 24 days BEFORE Palin was VP pick.

and an African American media worker was verbally attack at one of Palin's rallies.

Unsubstantiated Pablum.

Do you think these American youth were Obama youth or Republican youth?

They were two emo-nazi losers on MYSPACE! Huge RACE conspiracy!

Are there any REAL race threats or just more of the same the Ethno-Marxist Agenda to LABEL ALL OBAMA CRITICS AS RACIST?

She gave their hate and racism new fuel and worse a 'goal'.

Are you all crazy???  Don't you think the mere fact that a BLACK man was running is enough inspiration, fuel, etc. for white supremacists?  You think they need Palin insinuating things about his connection with (white guy) Bill Ayers?  Honestly?  You think these guys care?  The very fact that he's black is all they need, and I just don't recall Palin ever bringing that up...

No, she didn't bring up that he was black.  And, I agree.  These folks would be racist no matter who was running for president.  Now, I have heard racist comments, and no, I do not blame that on Palin, I'm used to hearing those.  It was all the other things I heard that totally freaked me out on a daily basis.  The muslim, anti-christ, turban schtick.  But, that isn't what this thread is about.  It is about racism.  Racism in America got an international stage again through this election.  I agree, it's always been here.  There are people that cannot bear the thought that someone of half African decsent could be their president, and unfortunately, some people used the other stuff as sort of a mask, without having to come out and say "he's black".  And I use the term some people loosely, because I do believe that some people didn't support him because they didn't agree with him on many levels.  So, I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I don't think all McCain/Palin supporters are racist.  I have talked to many, especially on the internet, who are not racists in the least.  My mother voted for McCain because she is older, she relates to him, and his service to our country meant something to her. 

He does not get it TNO.  Truly, he really does not.  And it is what is is. No harm. No foul.  Just no emotional comprehension and that's generally the case, sadly.

Elaine, I think YOU'RE the one who may not get it. Racism is still alive and well in this country; no big surprise. However, to blame Palin for things a few ignorant, backward people do or say is ridiculous. I never heard a single racist comment come out of her mouth. No code words, nothing.

I'm glad TNO doesn't think everyone who voted for McCain/Palin is a racist. Much like I don't think everyone who voted for Obama did so simply because he was black. Were there some that did? Sure. Again, there is still racism - on BOTH sides. Were there many of us who voted against Obama because we simply disagreed with his policies as a Liberal Democrat.

Hello fellow Tennesean; I live in Memphis and have since 1943.  Does that tell you what I have seen?  I held my breath when the 2 skinheads appeared in federal court here.  I held my breath when David Duke met with his "white civil rights" group here the weekend after the election.  I hold my breath when someone like Palin receives the responses her speeches elicit.  I think she and many posters do not have a clue.  I am a concerned white grandmother of a black grandson.  

But keep the faith.  There were white protesters at Duke's meeting, and a black lady on our news said Duke had every right to be here, and she had every right to stay far away from him!

Hello Paying Attention!  Nice to meet a fellow Tennessean.  And, I am a fellow Memphian as well.  I lived there from 1974 until 2008.  I now live in the eastern part of the state.  My husband and I have a word for some of our neighbors here in the south, we call them Hatriots. 

TN

 I live further south than you do and I resent your statement about "Hatriots."   So you are a transplant, and I was born here.

  Sounds like you are inciting a riot on the Vine.  Are you breaking the LAW? 

 Palin was talking about "terrorist" not racism. AYERS is an unrepentant terrorist and he and Obama are friends.  I can tell by reading these postings there is more hatred for Palin than there is racism, but more people are throwing racism up in there postings.

  Palin has done nothing wrong You all just do not like her and you are searching for something to keep her in the news and throwing stones at her.

As long as someone is shouting racism, then racism will never be dead.  That is going for all Colors of skin.

Sounds like you're very angry.  OK, you're more southern than me.  I'm not a transplanted southerner, I guess geographically you win on that one, I was born in south eastern KY.  I never said Palin was breaking the law.  I actually said that she has incited no riots.  What I also said was my opinion of some, not all, of the people that I come into contact with on a daily basis.  Hatriot is mean, I give you that, and I probably shouldn't have said it, so I apologize to those I have offended.  Maybe it is geographical, because as an Obama supporter where I happen to reside in rural TN, my patriotism was questioned on a daily basis, along with my faith.  I am sure there have been McCain supporters in other areas of the country that have had the same crap from Obama supporters.  Neither are justified.  So, I don't know, if you guys decide to riot based on my statements, then we can decide if I'm breaking the LAW.  I also said, in an earlier post, that the word terrorist isn't racially exclusive, so not real sure about that one.  And, being the offspring of  charasmatic Christians from Appalachia, I have formed my opinions based on my experiences.

Thank you PAYING ATTEN..........  Basically, everyone has their rights even if they go too far or don't care how far they go.  And those who need to, (as that reporter you mentioned said}should just stay away and hope and pray they are protected or out of range.  Yep, I know for sure what you have seen.  Me?  Former Alabama!  And now you know what I have seen.  I think we might be on the same page.  That is all we can do for each other and the President Elect, "keep the faith" that the purposeful "stirring" stays at a simmer point.  We all know deep in our hearts EXACTLY what we are doing and ONLY we will be held accountable in the long run.  I just hope it is worth the price that might have to be paid.  All that glitters ain't gold..................................and Mrs. Palin, bless her heart, is glittering something fierce right about now.  I tell my grand to be careful how you speak, react or over-react, as you might just HAVE TO reap what you sow or emotionally handle the aftermath.  That is called thinking way past the "now" effect.  If the mistakes of the past are not RECOGNIZED and CORRECTED; often times we are doomed to repeat them.

TN

No, I am not angry, but resentful when I see that people want to believe that racism is only in the South. 

I am even further South...South Central Louisiana. There is racism here, however, it has come a long way. Where I realize it cannot compare to the horrible things that have been done to blacks, it needs to be pointed out, that at least here, the tables seem to have turned. I (white) can be shopping minding my own business and have come very close to being attacked on numerous occasions for "looking" at a person. It's reversing here and seems to be worse since the election.

If anyone else had been saying the things she said (like if Obama had been the accuser) you would be yelling lockem up.

William Ayers is a terrorist.

William Ayers is a long time associate of Barack Hussein Obama.

Sarah Palin didn't say anything that wasn't true.

don't forget to mention the Annenberg family too, you know them, aren't they guilty by association too?

Are any of them President -elect?

 So tell you what while your saying she shouldn't be punished for making statements that we all know the mentally unstable would take to heart which endangers other people's lives how about this instead.

Hey! Careful friend, you're treading close upon "insulting" some of us mentally unstables out here!

I missed my favorite part too, how her home town had a surplus upon her taking office as mayor, and by the time she was through was (IS) over 200 g's in the red! (and I think I'm low, very low, might be a good point for some of her fan club to actually reasearch!) Now there's a shining example of Reaganomic trickle down economics for ya! Hmmm, sounds familiar..........

Ok here we go again with the Ayer's crap. Lets see First if he where indeed a terrorist he would be in jail and not teaching so just keep on putting the mans life in danger while you drink the kool aid. Second last time I checked he wasn't running for office. Third and Final answer the rest of the charges I posted because your girl is the poster child for everything wrong with the GOP.

Denn

Saving a few bullets like that just incase I get a defender of the wrong that doesn't like to play nice.

Thanks

I'm still waiting on just one person that thinks her breaking the law is OK. There quick to place blame but when faced with the very real fact that she knowingly broke the law then they disappear faster than roaches when the lights come on.

First if he where indeed a terrorist he would be in jail and not teaching so just keep on putting the mans life in danger while you drink the kool aid.

Ayers participated in the bombings of  NYC Police Headquarters in 1970, the Capitol Building in 1971, and The Penatagon  in 1972.

 1973, the federal government requested the dismissal of the charges against the couple in the interest of national security following accusations of government misconduct

TO the Palin defense team.

 You really need to take a step back and look at it from both sides.

But you don't, right?

Absolutely TONY. 

and to that other idiot (everything that MAY{???} be true DOES not always have to be voiced.  That is call "tempering"!  And if necessary to be voiced; there is always a more civil way.  Sometimes it is in the delivery! 

E.D. Kain

 Wrong I did take that step back and looked at it from both sides. Now for those that don't get it.

If Ayers had been deemed a terrorist he would be locked up or dead. He is teaching classes and the only thing your doing is putting his life in danger by constantly bringing up accusations from over 30 years ago.

Enough with with that and lets get back to todays problem. That being why would you support someone being in an elected office that willing broke the Law? She can't claim she didn't know because there are records that show she did this with full knowledge of what she was doing.

ok

HUZZAH!!